C O N T E N T S
June 24, 2008

U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs/U.S. Department of Defense Cooperation in Reintegration of National Guard and Reserve

OPENING STATEMENTS

Chairman Harry E. Mitchell
        Prepared statement of Chairman Mitchell
Hon. Ginny Brown-Waite, Ranking Republican Member
        Prepared statement of Congresswoman Brown-Waite
Hon. Timothy J. Walz

WITNESSES

U.S. Department of Defense:
Colonel Corinne Ritter, Director, Army Reserve Surgeon Forward, United States Army Reserve
Sergeant Major Janet Salotti, Chief, Reintegration Office, Office of Joint Manpower and Personnel, National Guard Bureau (on behalf of Lieutenant General H. Steven Blum, Chief, National Guard Bureau)
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, Major General Marianne Mathewson-Chapman, USA (Ret.), Ph.D., ARNP, National Guard and Reserve Coordinator, Office of Outreach to Guard and Reserve Families, Veterans Health Administration
    Prepared statement of Major General Marianne Mathewson-Chapman

American Legion, Joseph C. Sharpe, Jr., Deputy Director, National Economic Commission
    Prepared statement of Mr. Sharpe
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Patrick Campbell, Legislative Director
    Prepared statement of Mr. Campbell

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

U.S. Department of Defense, Donald L. Nelson, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs (Manpower and Personnel), statement
Reserve Officers Association, statement

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS/U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE COOPERATION IN REINTEGRATION OF NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVE

Tuesday, June 24, 2008
U. S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, DC.

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:04 p.m., in Room 334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Harry E. Mitchell [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Mitchell, Walz, Brown-Waite and Bilbray.

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN MITCHELL

Mr. MITCHELL.  Good afternoon, and welcome to the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations hearing on the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) Cooperation in Reintegration of National Guard and Reserves.  This hearing will come to order. 

We are here today to address what the Department of Defense and the VA are doing to help members of the reserve components reintegrate into civilian life after the return from deployment to the combat theater.  Members of the National Guard and Reserves units typically disperse more widely upon their return than those in active-duty units and it is more difficult to ensure that they receive the readjustment benefits and services that they may need and have certainly earned. 

National Guard and Reserve members are serving at the same operational tempo as active-duty units.  Half of the veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are members of the National Guard or Reserve.  It is important for DoD and VA to work together, along with the servicemember and his or her family, to ensure a good transition from military to civilian life.  Guard and Reserve members return to their civilian lives with little decompression time.  Most are married.  Many have children.  And they often find it difficult to reconnect with families and communities.  The skills and emotional attitudes that are essential in a combat environment present unique challenges if applied to the civilian life without some readjustment assistance. 

Veterans of the Guard and Reserve, just as those in active-duty components, can make use of educational benefits, healthcare, and other readjustment assistance for having served their country.  Unfortunately, excessive bureaucracy makes it difficult for veterans to receive these benefits, let alone know what is available.  Close cooperation between the DoD, VA, and the State is essential to ease the transition from military to civilian life.  Assisting veterans and their families requires that VA be present at demobilization (demob) sites; that returning Guard and Reserve units be engaged in and be compensated for reintegration activities at thirty, sixty, and ninety-day intervals after demobilization; that families be fully involved; that DoD, VA, and the States fully cooperation and participate in the reintegration events; and that DoD, VA, and the States engage in outreach to ensure all Guard and Reserve veterans and their families know about the services and benefits available to them. 

Congress recognized these needs in the most recent National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA).  The fiscal year 2008 NDAA mandates at thirty, sixty, and ninety-day reintegration and outreach program.  The NDAA also requires DoD to create an Office of Reintegration Programs and a Center of Excellence in Reintegration within the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD).  The reserve components are awaiting policy guidance from that office so they can proceed.

Despite the slow Federal response, a number of States have stepped up and created first class programs.  I know that in my home State of Arizona, the VA plays a central role in welcoming home our Guardsmen.  In fact, the VA and the National Guard Bureau (NGB) are active participants in these programs in States across the country.  But only a minority of States have them. 

At the national level, VA, NGB and OSD for Reserve Affairs are not showing the same level of cooperation and this is unacceptable.  Let me give you a very recent example.  Just last week the 325th Combat Support Hospital, or CSH, an Army Reserve Unit based in Independence, Missouri, returned home from a ten-month tour of duty in Iraq.  CSH units experience the absolute worst that war has to offer on a daily basis.  Combat healthcare providers require the best post-deployment support that we can provide them.  The 325th CSH, while deployed, is composed of four Reserve subunits from across the country.  In some cases, individuals are deployed with the 325th from other units to fill certain vacancies.  In order to make sure that all the members of the returning unit are provided reintegration services, DoD and the VA must work closely together and be prepared to deliver those services in multiple places nationwide.  This is not an easy task, but it absolutely must be done.

Our citizen soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines leave their families and civilian lives to put themselves in harm’s way to protect our Nation.  The least we can do is give them the care and respect that they have earned and deserve when they come home.

[The statement of Chairman Mitchell appears in the Appendix.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Before I recognize the Ranking Republican Member for her remarks I would like to swear in our witnesses.  I ask all witnesses from both panels if they would please stand and raise their right hand. 

[Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Next I ask unanimous consent that the Reserve Officers Association may submit a statement for the record.  Hearing no objection, so ordered.    

[The statement of the Reserve Officers Association appears in the Appendix.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Now I would like to recognize Ms. Brown-Waite for her opening remarks. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. GINNY BROWN-WAITE

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.  I am very glad that we are holding this hearing today, to see how well VA and the Department of Defense are cooperating in the reintegration of National Guard and Reserves.

Seamless transition of our servicemembers has not always been smooth, as we know.  And it's equally important for us to review how this transition is occurring for our National Guard and Reservists, and active-duty members.  State National Guard bureaus are run independently and provide a variety of programs in support of returning Guardsmen and Reserves.  In Florida, we have a very strong State program in support of returning National Guard units.  In July of 2005, the State legislature appropriated funds to establish the Florida Armed Forces Reserve Family Readiness Program Assistance Fund to help families of servicemembers during their deployment on an as needed basis.  This program is available to Florida residents serving in all branches of the military and it provides much needed assistance to the families of our servicemembers who may experience unexpected financial hardships during their loved one’s mobilization, and ensures the family will have the resources that it needs to sustain itself while the servicemember is away. 

I would like to commend my colleague, Congressman John Kline of Minnesota, for his fine efforts in developing the Yellow Ribbon Initiatives to establish a DoD-wide deployment cycle support program that provides much information and services, along with referrals and very proactive outreach opportunities for servicemembers and families throughout the entire deployment cycle.  His legislation, H.R. 2090, would direct the Secretary of Defense to establish a National Combat Veterans Integration Program, to be known as the Yellow Ribbon Integration Program, to provide National Guard members and their families with information, services, referral, and outreach opportunities throughout their entire deployment.  H.R. 2090 was included as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2008, which became Public Law 110-181 on January 28, earlier this year. 

On June 7 of this year, the State of Florida held its first Yellow Ribbon event in Jacksonville supporting families of the returning 90 National Guardsmen and their families.  The Florida National Guard is currently working to implement this statewide.  The Minnesota Yellow Ribbon model, as authorized in the National Defense Authorization Act, is something that all States should indeed emulate. 

I look forward to learning more from our witnesses today on how they are implementing programs to serve our National Guard and Reserve components.  And I just wanted to also mention, Mr. Chairman, that when our National Guard units are deployed what we try to do is to get together with the family members who are still here to see if there are any needs in the community.  And we try to, especially now during a declining economy, we try, for example, if there is someone who might be having some plumbing problems in the house, we try to get some people to volunteer from the community to help the families.  And I think that this has worked very, very well in our district.  And I would encourage other members to do the same. 

I appreciate the opportunity that you have given this Committee by holding this Committee hearing today.  And I thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time.

[The statement of Congresswoman Brown-Waite appears in the Appendix.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Congressman Walz?

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. TIMOTHY J. WALZ

Mr. WALZ.  Well, thank you Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Brown-Waite, and thank you to all our witnesses who are here today.  This is a very important topic.  It is not an afterthought.  It is part of the spectrum of care that we deliver to our soldiers to make sure that their well-being as well as this Nation’s well-being and security is taken care of. 

I am very proud to have watched the development of the Beyond the Yellow Ribbon Campaign.  I spent twenty-four years in the National Guard, in the Minnesota National Guard, and retired as a Command Sergeant Major out of that fine organization.  I know when I returned back and we were all put in a room, those combat veterans and those of us who were on service and support missions, back early in these conflicts we were put in a room for reintegration and we had a nice talk from the chaplain, and we watched The Horse Whisperer, and we went home.  And I still am not sure what the message was.  But I know we learned it was not the right way to do it.  And I applaud, I applaud our leaders out in the National Guard and Guard Bureau.  We have got an Adjutant General in Larry Shellito in Minnesota with a vision and an understanding of what needed to be done here.  And in some cases he butted his head up against DoD directives and he said, “Um, no, we do not care if you tell us we cannot have them back for the first thirty days.  We are bringing them back.  And we are going to find a way to pay them and we are going to find a way to bring their family in.  And we are going to find a way to get beyond these institutional obstacles that were put up.”

And they have got some data and some metrics we are starting to measure.  One of the things is—I think that is a fantastic statistic—99 percent of our soldiers who deployed, and by the way that Red Bull Battalion, our division that went, has the distinction of serving the longest tour of duty in Iraq of any unit in the United States military.  And some of their numbers are, 99 percent of them are enrolled in the VA and are captured with their information.  Minnesota has something that goes the next step, it is the County Veterans Service Officers (CVSOs).  And those CVSOs are given the DD-214s immediately upon return that so we are not tracking them down or trying to find out who these soldiers are.  Unfortunately for our Reserve and our active-duty forces the same is not true.  And so while the National Guard is in a unique situation of deploying and then dispersing, they have done a better job of capturing them than the regular Army soldiers who come back after their Expiration of Time and Service (ETS) date and dispersed. 

So I think, and I agree, that nationalizing to a certain degree and having DoD and VA work together with the services to make sure we have a national policy implemented, and one that works best for each of the States, is the way to go.  I would have to tell you that I am hoping we are going to hear from DoD today because my concern lies with them.  I am seeing great cooperating out of the National Guard Bureau.  I am seeing fantastic leadership, whether it is Florida or Minnesota or the other States.  But I’m quite honestly seeing some of the same bureaucratic drag that sees this as an added burden rather than a force readiness and a force protection issue of making sure, because all of us hope that we will not need to redeploy those same soldiers we are reintegrating, but we will, probably more than likely we will. 

So it is in everyone’s best interest to make sure that they and their families are as well taken care of, as reintegrated as possible.  And the research is out there.  The will seems to be out there.  And this Committee has been committed to making sure that we do whatever is necessary to make sure reintegration is uniform and it can be measured with outcomes that are positive for those soldiers and for the families.  So I look forward to our testimony today from people who have experienced this, who are talking with our soldiers and sailors, Marines and airmen, as we are.  And tell us what we need to do to implement this.  Because we’re fast approaching that fourth quarter where DoD is supposed to have this implemented.  And I’m hoping someone is out there today to just stand up from DoD to tell me how they are doing.  And with that I yield back. 

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you very much.  I ask unanimous consent that all Members have five legislative days to submit a statement for the record.  Hearing no objection, so ordered. 

At this time, I would like to recognize Mr. Patrick Campbell, Legislative Director for the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA), and Mr. Joseph Sharpe, Deputy Director of the National Economic Commission for the American Legion.  And I would first like to recognize Mr. Campbell and then Mr. Sharpe for five minutes each.  Mr. Campbell? 

TESTIMONY OF PATRICK CAMPBELL, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA; AND JOSEPH C. SHARPE, JR., DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COMMISSION, AMERICAN LEGION

STATEMENT OF PATRICK CAMPBELL

Mr. CAMPBELL.  Mr. Chaiman, Ranking Member, Congressman Walz, thank you for this opportunity to testify on behalf of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.  This issue is very personal to me.  As a Guardsmen who is still in the Guard, who also served in Iraq, this is about my experience and about the experience of the people I served with.

I do want to take this opportunity to say thank you to the Chairman and the Ranking Member on behalf of all your work that you did with the GI bill.  When I looked at who I was going to be testifying in front of I said, “These are two people who are definitely heroes in the veterans community right now.”  So thank you for all the work that you’ve done. 

To be honest, writing this testimony has been really hard for me.  I know the Chairman and the Ranking Member have heard me talk a little bit about this story that I’m about to tell, but this testimony has taken me down a long road of some repressed memories.  I looked in my journal that I kept while I was over there, and three years ago today we were conducting a raid in Baghdad.  It was one of the first days that we weren’t actually on the tip of the spear.  We were just pulling security, doing what’s called an outer cordon.  It was late night.  It was clear.  Well past curfew, no one should have been on the road.  And then we saw a man start walking towards us.  He got closer.  We started yelling, “Stop!”  He got closer.  And the gunner who was guarding that corner fired a five round burst, which, you know, had two tracers, it was pretty loud, it scared everyone.  And the man kept coming.  He kept firing warning shots, kept firing warning shots, until the man literally was standing right in the middle of our group at two o’clock in the morning.  As if he didn’t even acknowledge the fact that he was being shot at, or he was surrounded by servicemembers.  He walked out the other side. 

And I remember thinking that every one of us that day had the opportunity, and probably the responsibility, to shoot and kill that person because he was a danger to the unit.  No one did.  And I remember spending the rest of that night listening to a particular sergeant, who was my mentor, basically rip into us for not taking the shot, not making that tough choice.  Because he said that, “we were pretty [blank], very lucky this time.”  If he was a suicide bomber, he probably, most of us would, already be dead.  “Remember we are fighting a war and your enemy will not show you any mercy.  Next time you take the shot, damn it.” 

This person was an exemplary non-commissioned Officer (NCO).  He put his fellow soldier above himself and I looked up to him.  He saved my life many times while I was there and I’m sad to say that after we got home from Iraq, the first time that I saw him after that he was lying in a casket.  It was this past Memorial Day and, we had just gotten orders that we were going back to Iraq.  And unfortunately, the armor, the psychological Kevlar that he put on in order to get himself and get us through the experience that we were in in Iraq, he couldn’t take it off when he got back.  The very thing that made him strongest, that made him our leader, made him the weakest and made him to be the person that we had to say goodbye to on Memorial Day. 

This hearing is on the intersection between the Departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs.  Integration issues become especially important for Guard and Reservists because we are both within DoD and within VA.  Now, I will say this.  The good thing is that there are already model programs that have already been talked about here today.  The Beyond the Yellow Ribbon Program is so far ahead of what everything else that’s currently going on.  I can tell you the only time I ever heard from VA in the first year that I got back was a letter saying that I got my social security number stolen and I should check my credit report.  The first time I went into VA I had to have someone who was a Committee staffer on this Committee tell me to go. 

The Yellow Ribbon Program is a model program because it focuses on a holistic approach that deals not only with the soldier, Guard, and Marine, but also deals with their families.  It gets them into counseling, it gets them a job, and finds them something to do.  Which is important because I truly believe that idle hands are the devil’s playground.  But within that program there are a couple key pieces that even if we don’t implement the Beyond the Yellow Ribbon Program that we must have in order to have successful reintegration. 

First, is mandatory face to face confidential counseling with a licensed professional.  I cannot tell you how embarrassing it is to be walking through the aisles of Barnes and Noble talking about my experiences in Iraq to the Post Deployment Health Reassessment (PDHRA) on my cell phone.  I had to try to find an aisle where no one was reading books so I could tell them the story about the time where I had to reach into someone’s cranial cavity and, then had to give the man mouth to mouth.  I shouldn’t have to do that over the phone. 

Second, is we need to greatly expand the VA outreach programs.  I’m happy to say that the VA has started to outreach to all those people who have not sought the VA for healthcare.  But that’s got to be a first step.  We need to have a relationship that is modeled after the relationships that college alumni associations develop with their members, that start before you even become an alumni.  That starts before you become a veteran.  The VA needs to be a part of your life the day you join.  You should get your VA card when you enlist.  I mean, when get your ID card, you should already be enrolled in the VA system. 

The last and probably most importantly is that the VA and DoD need to declare war on mental health stigma.  I feel bad but I’ve sat in hearings or meetings where people say, “Oh, we’ve taken care of stigma.”  And I looked at them and I said, “You know, you’ve got to be kidding.  That program that you just talked about was pretty much a joke.”  It needs to be a coordinated effort that deals with a servicemember, their family, and the public as a whole that tells people, “It’s okay to get counseling.”  And shows people what that actually will do for their lives. 

I’m beyond my time but I really appreciate this opportunity and I look forward to your questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Campbell appears in the Appendix.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you, Mr. Campbell.  At this time, Mr. Sharpe?

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH C. SHARPE, JR.

Mr. SHARPE.  Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to present the American Legion’s views on VA and DoD cooperation in reintegration of the National Guard and Reserves.  The American Legion commends this Subcommittee for holding a hearing to discuss the importance of assisting our Reserve component as they make their transition back to civilian life.

With the ending of the Cold War, the Department of Defense dramatically downsized its personnel strength.  In 1990 Congress, in an attempt to assist separating servicemembers in making a successful transition back into the civilian workforce, enacted Public Law 101-510, which authorized the creation of the Transition Assistance Program, TAP.  This law was intended to assist servicemembers, especially those who possess certain critical military specialties that could not easily transfer to a civilian work environment with education and career services.  DoD’s TAP and Disabled Transition Assistance Program (DTAP) are designed in conjunction with the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) and the Department of Veterans Affairs to help prepare not only separating servicemembers but also their families for a seamless transition to civilian life. 

Last year more than 386,200 servicemembers were discharged from active-duty status and more than 500,534 servicemembers demobilized from active-duty service.  As mentioned, Public Law 101-510 mandates pre-separation counseling for transitioning servicemembers.  These programs consist of specific components: pre-separation counseling, employment assistance, relocation assistance, education, training, health and life insurance.  DTAP is designed to educate and facilitate disabled veterans to overcome potential barriers to meaningful employment.  Currently, VA, DOL and DoD operate 215 transition offices around the world. 

VA in the last several years has improved its outreach efforts, especially its efforts to reach and inform active-duty servicemembers preparing to leave the military.  The American Legion still remains concerned, however, that many transitioning Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom veterans are not being adequately advised of their benefits and services available to them from VA and other Federal and State agencies.  This is especially true of Reserve and National Guard units that are often demobilized at hometown Reserve centers and National Guard armories rather than active-duty demob centers. 

VA and the Department of Defense have made strides towards improved outreach.  Unfortunately, VA’s efforts regarding TAP are hampered by the fact that only one of the services, the Marine Corps, requires its separating members to attend these briefings.  This flaw in the system did not escape the Veterans Disability Benefits Commission and resulted in a recommendation that Congress mandate TAP briefings and attendance throughout DoD.  The American Legion strongly agrees with that recommendation.  In order for all separating servicemembers to be properly advised of all of the benefits which they may be entitled to, it is crucial that Congress adequately fund and mandate both TAP availability and attendance in all of the military services.

VA also affords separating servicemembers the opportunity to start the disability claims process at least six months prior to separating from active duty through its Benefits Delivery at Discharge (BDD) Program.  Unfortunately, this program is not available to all separating servicemembers with service related medical conditions as the program is only available at 140 military installations.  Necessary measures, including adequate funding, should be taken to ensure that all separating servicemembers, including members of the National Guard and Reserves, have the opportunity to participate in the BDD process if they so desire. 

Finally, America asks its young people to serve in the armed forces to guard and defend this great Nation and its way of life.  Their selfless service provides millions of Americans with the opportunity to pursue their vocational endeavors.  The successful transition of the servicemember back into the civilian workforce must be a shared responsibility, especially if that servicemember has suffered service-connected disabilities.  There is much talk about seeing this transition between DoD and VA, but it goes far beyond that.  It should be a seamless transition between all Federal agencies involved in the Transition Assistance Program. 

This concludes my comments.  Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing the American Legion to present comments on these important matters.  Thank you.

[The statement of Mr. Sharpe appears in the Appendix.]

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you, Mr. Sharpe.  I have some questions.  First, Mr. Campbell.  In your personal experience with redeploying back home, what are the major problems you encounter with the VA or even the DoD?

Mr. CAMPBELL.  Well, major problems were, one, that I was one of those individuals who was attached to a unit.  So when I came home, I separated and I never had anyone checking in with me ever since I’ve gotten home.  You have the fracturing of the unit once you come together, from piecemeal as a unit, and you go overseas, and you come back and you fracture all over the place.  Usually only the larger masses get some help. 

The second problem is, is that, a lot of people didn’t even know that they had a two-year, it was two-year back then, a two-year window to go use the VA.  It was only because one of the wives of the servicemembers we served with actually worked in the VA, and came in and did a briefing that anyone found out. 

Third is that we still don’t require people to go get counseling.  I remember, this is going to be awful to say, the last person from my unit to commit suicide was on the same weekend that the VA did a model program for post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) with my unit.  They brought half my unit in to do a counseling program and the other half got to stay home.  Well that same weekend one of the guys committed suicide.  We need to have a concerted effort that goes out to every single servicemember that comes home that involves them in the VA at multiple levels.  It can’t be a one touch and we leave them.  It needs to be a relationship. 

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Mr. Sharpe, what are the three biggest issues you currently see facing Guardsmen and Reservists when they reintegrate after being redeployed?

Mr. SHARPE.  The number one issue is that they’re not all benefitting from a comprehensive TAP program.  When I returned from Iraq, we had our demob.  Our demob site was Fort Bragg.  Prior to my deployment, since I’ve already, since I’m with the American Legion and I’ve worked with VA pretty closely, I know the system fairly well.  However, when that VA representative came to talk to my unit their message was not in fact clear.  They sent out a lot of mixed messages.  We were told that we had these VA benefits but since we were a unit made up of servicemembers from ten different States that we were also told that depending on which State that you’re from, that VA medical center closest to you, you may not receive any services by the fact that they’re overcrowded.  That’s a mixed message. 

One thing I had told members of my unit, once you return you’re going to be offered a full physical and you need to sign up for it.  The VA representative and the DoD representative in fact stated that you have a choice between having a full medical physical and an abbreviated one.  That particular day, practically 95 percent of my brigade signed up for that.  And the very next day they looked at the list and that representative said, “Well, all of you have signed up for this full physical but you need to know what that entails.”  And the one thing he said was that you’re going to have a prostate exam and you know what’s going to happen to you.  After he said that, 85 percent ran up to the front of the room and crossed their names out.  Maybe only thirty people had that exam and at the end of the exam we had two members that came up with precancerous conditions.  And they would have never had known about that if they had not gone through that exam.  So that’s another problem. 

The second problem was no one was aware that they were being offered two years of free medical care.  No one understood that they could also opt with six months of free TRICARE.  After a year, a lot of individuals in my unit didn’t realize that they had missed the opportunity to sign up for TRICARE.  A lot of them really didn’t know that they had VA benefits.  It was like the briefing that we had meant completely, it did not have a lasting impact because it was so abbreviated, there were so many mixed messages, and many of them got the impression that VA really doesn’t want to take care of them.  That was the first concern. 

The second was a lot of members of my unit came back with all type of psychological trauma.  We had individuals that lost their families, ended up homeless, they were sleeping in their cars.  A lot of substance abuse.  One evening a bunch of us got together and someone mentioned, “Is anyone having any mental health issues?”  Practically everybody in the room raised their hand.  And then someone asked, “But where do we go for help?”  So, again, that wasn’t made clear to them, that there was a place to go for that type of assistance.  Many individuals had lost their jobs.  Their companies made all type of excuses, of, “Well, the training program we have, we had then is no longer in existence.”  Or, “We have downsized.”  Or, “We have no need for you.”  So that was another huge problem. 

Again, a lot of these individuals are married.  They have families.  They’re from all over the country.  And the TAP briefing that we had was just not adequate.  And we didn’t have a follow up.  So when someone is deployed this should be a natural part of you being in the service.  Constant briefings.  A clear understanding of what your benefits are.  And kind of an open door policy.  But that was not the case with us.  And I’ve been deployed twice. 

Mr. MITCHELL.  If the rest of the Subcommittee will indulge me, just one quick question.  When you had your debriefing, or your discussion as you were redeployed, was there any follow up by mail?  Or was the only thing you had, was it done verbally and that was it?

Mr. SHARPE.  There was very little follow up.  Now, since I was already in the VA system and since I knew to apply for a service connection, and since I was also enrolled in TRICARE, okay, I did receive some follow up maybe six or seven months later.  But when I questioned other members of my unit that had not applied to VA, weren’t aware of their TRICARE benefits, many of them received nothing because they just didn’t seem to know that they could go to the VA for help.  They didn’t know that they could apply.  They didn’t understand what a service connection meant.  And, as far as the Department of Labor, you know, they weren’t aware that they could go to the one stop shops, you know, for employment assistance from the Disabled Veterans' Outreach Program (DVOP) and Local Veterans' Employment Representatives (LVERs).  Very little, very few of them knew that they could also get assistance for the, you know, their families and finding homes and that type of thing.

Mr. CAMPBELL.  I had a very similar experience.  I was told that I’d get TRICARE paperwork within six months of coming home so that I could re-enroll.  I got six free months and then I never got anything.  And actually to this day I’m still frustrated about that because I missed out my opportunity to buy into TRICARE at a lower cost.  And, then I had to pay my school an exorbitant amount of money to enroll in healthcare when I didn’t need to.

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Ms. Brown-Waite?

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And I want to thank both of our witnesses for their service.  Words cannot express how much your ability and willingness to be in our military today means to so many people.

I would ask if in your experiences and talking with other returning servicemembers what kind of programs that you see are most successful in reaching out to our Guard and Reservists?  One of the things that we have been doing recently is, we will have a family night where we actually give the information to the spouses and other family members.  A mother, or mother and father, if the servicemember isn’t married, to let them know what the servicemember will be eligible for.  I would like to hear from both of you as to what else you found that is helpful. 

Mr. SHARPE.  I believe there should be a standardized program for all the Reserve and National Guard.  I know some States are more proactive than others but that shouldn’t be the case.  Everyone should have the same opportunities.  Right now, we have veterans moving to various States because they know that they’re going, the benefits are better.  The military has done a great job as far as having mandatory, I guess, workshops on sexual harassment, or other subjects, other areas of importance, and that should be one.  There should be a mandatory program that all Reserve and National Guardsmen go through.  We generally have Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act briefings on a regular basis.  But there should also be some more from VA or the Department of Labor, who consistently comes to the unit, maybe three or four times a year and give these type of briefings.  And, it should be done during family day.  Because if the servicemember misses the information, then you have a second person that may get it.  But there should definitely be a national program where everyone gets the same benefits, and it should be mandatory.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  Mr. Campbell?

Mr. CAMPBELL.  I actually spent this morning talking with a bunch of  veterans service organizations (VSOs) and a private company that was looking into implementing one of the Dole-Shalala Commission reports requiring a single portal for understanding a veteran’s benefits.  The whole conversation dealt specifically with the ideas, of answering the question “What am I entitled to?”  And even if I do know what I’m entitled to, how do I actually access those benefits?  Right now if you go to the VA Web site or you go to the DoD Web site, I mean you’re going to get lost in web pages.  So one of the number one priorities is boiling down that information.  Military One Source is a great opportunity for people to call in but there’s no web site equivalent that shows you what you’re entitled to.  That’s priority number one.

Number two, the welcome home events, the phone calls, the emails, like I said, it’s not going to be just one thing.  It’s reaching people in different ways.  I don’t get emails from the VA.  I get letters from the VA.  But I come from a generation that almost deals specifically in text messages and emails. The VA’s doing this call center where they’re calling 500,000 veterans, which is great.  But how else are we touching them?  Are we sending them emails?  Are we sending letters?  I mean, the VA doesn’t have a program where you can sign up and say, “Hey, send me some stuff about education.  Send me some stuff about small business programs.  It needs to be a relationship, not just a touch and go.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  My last question before I run out of time is the Marines actually make the Transition Assistance Program mandatory.  The other branches do not.  Do you feel, if both of you would reply, do you feel that this should be mandatory for the other branches of service?  That TAP would be of great help to the servicemembers also?

Mr. SHARPE.  Absolutely.  At least by going through TAP you are aware of what benefits that you have.  And, and it should not be towards the end of your career, but it should start as soon as you sign up to the military.  We have visited various DoD facilities across the country and we’ve had town hall meetings with hundreds of soldiers and Marines.  And that seems to be the biggest complaint, of them not being able to access their benefits and not knowing what’s available to them.  And it should be a mandatory program.  And I think that would solve a lot of our problems.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  And I think if you combine that along with Mr. Campbell’s suggestion of having an email sign up list—

Mr. SHARPE.  Exactly.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  —as benefits change—

Mr. SHARPE.  Right.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  —there would be an instant updating.   

Mr. CAMPBELL.  That’s very funny, because that was the exact feature that this new program that they were working on would do.  You put in what you would want to find and then every day it would update what the new programs available under this subject.  Technology can solve a lot of these problems, but we need to invest in it and actually make it happen.  And I also just want to say that we need to be careful with anything we do at the end of a tour, because I call it the duffel bag syndrome.  They give you enough stuff the last couple days you’re there to fill up a duffel bag.  You keep it in the duffel bag until about a year later and you’re dumping it out going, you know, “What is all this?”  It needs to be consolidated.  It needs to be put in a way that’s understandable.  Hard copy, digital copy, it needs to be put up everywhere.

Ms. BROWN-WAITE.  Thank you.  I yield back the balance.

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Mr. Walz? 

Mr. WALZ.  Well, thank you both for your testimony.  And when it is this Committee, and I hope that your fellow Americans, are thanking you for your service, but I think it should be in deed and not just in words.  So I am pleased to sit on this Committee that I think is starting to deliver.  And I want to thank, of course, the Legion for decades of work and of advocating for these very things.  And I think there’s a new voice on the Hill, one that is gaining great respectability and great accountability, and it is the passionate voice of IAVA.  So I thank you for that.  And I thank you, and when legislation comes forward like our Pain Care Relief Bill, I appreciate you helping advocate for that.  It makes a difference being in this together. 

Just a couple of things here that I am hearing.  And I really appreciate, I think you are onto this.  This Beyond the Yellow Ribbon and watching how this worked, and your experience is exactly right.  The prostate example is exactly it.  When you are sitting in those billets and you have been gone from home for quite a while, and then they tell you that if you go see these people you might be there an extra day or two, you do not, you want to be outside the wire in three minutes.  And you will tell them whatever they want to hear.  And I had soldiers who were hurt, and I had to drag them down there myself because they were concerned about that.  So I think that as we are starting to get this right, and I think in Minnesota where we have made it part of it, we have brought them back in, we have paid them on unit training assembly on drill weekends, brought their families in, made this part of the, you know, it was very clear cut on what was going to happen, there was much more of an acceptance.

And I also think you hit on a couple very important points, of getting it unified, standardized or whatever.  I think, Mr. Campbell your point on the mental health side of this, all of those who have been in know how critical this is.  And it is difficult to change a culture.  It takes a long time.  And it is not just a military culture, it is a culture here in the United States as we deal with mental health and what we consider to be acceptable treatment or levels of acceptability.  So I am deeply sorry for the loss of your sergeant.  It is a story that we hear all too often.  It is all too, it is all too common. 

But I do not think you should be surprised at what is happening and the slowness to get this done.  We have had, and I just want to give you this.  We have witnesses that testify in front of us, expert witnesses that are brought into this panel, that write books like "How the Helping Culture’s Eroding Self-Reliance," "Addiction Isn’t A Brain Disease, Congress," "Stressed Out Vets, Believing the Worst About PTSD and Mind Games," "Senate Mental Health Parity Bill Ill Conceived and Wrong."  There is still a very strong emphasis here of saying that these are things that really are not that big a problem.  And I think we have to be very realistic as we are trying to implement these and push them forward that you are simultaneously battling the idea that maybe this is not needed.  And I said what we need to be able to prove is, and what I am concerned about is, prove the metrics that we are getting something out of this.  Prove that we actually are doing the things that we say we are going to do.  Be able to prove the quality of life.  And I think that is what we are starting to see in Minnesota because the outcomes are what was most important and they back planned from the outcomes.  What they wanted was healthy families, healthy warriors at the point that they were back into the society and figuring out how to get them there. 

So I have a couple of questions, again.  I am asking you both to speculate on this.  Why do you think we experience such resistance from the VA and DoD in allowing us just to simply register people with their DD-214 to the VA immediately?  Mr. Campbell, you said you even took it a step further and said the day you raise your hand is the day you should be enrolled in the VA.  I said if we cannot do that, at least the day you leave you should automatically be enrolled.  And I get the answer, things like, “Well, that is personal data,” and again, it is we cannot force someone to enter into the system.  We are not forcing them to enter into the system.  We are forcing them to capture the data and be available, that it is there.  And so I am just, your opinions from the two of you, why do you think we experience that resistance?  They give me things like they are afraid we will lose the data.  Now, if there is anybody in here who does not find that, if it were not so sad it would be humorous, about the VA talking about losing data.  Because none of our County Veterans Service Officers have done that, who are trying to enroll them.  So I am just curious. 

Mr. SHARPE.  My opinion as far as spending some time working with the VA and visiting many of the VA facilities around the country, and also when I was on active duty I was in the medical corps, so my last assignment was Walter Reed, is that both institutions are just overwhelmed.  When we deployed back to Fort Bragg and we visited Womack there were just so many veterans coming, I mean, there were so many people demobing and leaving Fort Bragg.  The hospital staff was obviously stressed out.  They really didn’t want individuals to go through the full physical because they didn’t have the staff members to do it.

Mr. WALZ.  Mm-hmm.

Mr. SHARPE.  Same thing with the VA.  A lot of VA facilities are underfunded.  You know, staffing is a problem.  They would rather just take the easy road when they feel like they’re overwhelmed and can’t handle it anymore.  And I think that’s the big problem, is that we just don’t have enough facilities to handle it.  We’re still closing VA hospitals.  We’ve closed half of DoD medical facilities.  Prior to being in the Civil Affairs Military Occupation Specialties (MOS), I was in a combat stress unit.  We had thirteen such units across the country.  Eight of them were demobilized.  So I had to find another unit, another MOS to get into.  So we just didn’t, for this war we just didn’t have the medical capacity to handle the huge numbers of individuals. 

Mr. CAMPBELL.  I’ve always said that if all the people who needed help from the VA were to all ask for help at once the VA would break underneath the weight.  And I think that that’s a problem.  I remember the first time this issue came up, an office was asking me about a bill that would require this same thing.  And the first line we got back was, “Oh, it’s a Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) protection.  You can’t share information.”  And I kept thinking to myself, “It’s similar,” in HIPAA there’s waiver for similar populations.  And what it came down to me, basically, was they don’t look at servicemembers as a similar population to veterans, which to me when you’re talking about seamless transition, you’re making a nice big gorge in between the two, and where it doesn’t need to be.  Only because we have drawn the lines like that.  No one in their right mind, draws lines like that.  It’s all one part of the process.  You’re a student and then you’re an alumni.  You’re a servicemember and then you’re a veteran.

Mr. WALZ.  I yield back.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MITCHELL.  Thank you.  Mr. Bilbray?

Mr. BILBRAY.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  First, Mr. Campbell, I apologize for missing your testimony but I appreciate your candor and your personal experience on this.  So we pretty well agree that we should try to have as uniform structure as possible across the services.  I hope you all, the challenge is going to be the Reservists.  I mean, we sometimes forget that we are actually fifty sovereign countries that have joined together into a federation.  And the ability for the Federal Government to always be imposing on those States certain standards is an interesting tightrope we have been pulling for a long time. 

Though I have to say, your points, both of you, is the point that, I have to say just coming from local government that if you were, we were talking about a certain population that was homeless, a population that had committed crimes, a population that, what, may not even be legally present in the United States, the access and information and the access to services are so pre-structured for those populations better than what we have with the VA and veterans.  There are nonprofits out there falling over themselves, getting Federal grants to provide services to people that have never earned the right of these services.  And that is mandated by so many different laws that those, that information has to be available and those groups or agencies are serving it, to where sadly we do not give the same type of attention to those who have earned the right of these services.  And I guess I always try to remind people these are, this is not a welfare program.  These are earned privileges that were earned out in the field by working on it. 

The question is, Mr. Campbell, you talk about the use of technology.  When you get a phone call from the VA, is it a personal phone call?  Is electronic reverse 911? 

Mr. CAMPBELL.  I’ve never gotten a phone call from the VA.  I have gotten a phone call from the DoD and it is, it is one of those calls that we used to do when we worked on campaigns where it, it was an automatic dialer.

Mr. BILBRAY.  Yes.

Mr. CAMPBELL.  And then as soon as you picked up you would be then, there would be a long pause and then they would get you to a live person.  And it would say, “Sergeant Patrick Campbell, please hold for the PDHRA, Post Deployment Health Reassessment Team,” and then another pause.  And then you would talk to someone who was a licensed physician assistant who had only one or two days of actual mental health training.

Mr. BILBRAY.  Okay.  So they are using a form of the reverse 911?  Because it, you know, we have used that now for disaster preparedness and voting and everything else now, to where you literally can customize it and get a hold of people who on a certain cause saying, you know, because you are putting notice that you have this, this, and this down there.  I will tell you something, the biggest challenge I have is that as somebody that was born at a naval reservation, you know, grew up going from one navy base to the other, I think there is ten years of my life between when my father died and when I started in college that I was not either in the military establishment, on VA going to college, or working in government.  Bureaucracies inherently are insensitive and ineffective.  And a big bureaucracy tends to be bigger than that. 

My question though is that working on this population, I think that we have got to be talking about not just the services that are not or are available to you once you get into the States.  I think we have grossly underestimated, especially to Reservists, the impact that we have had that modern transportation has done to the veteran when they come back.  I have worked with law enforcement where the suicide rate is statistically higher, of the problem of going from in harm’s way and then coming home to the wife and kids, and going back and forth, and the psychology effect.  And I just ask anybody to think about, those of us in Congress, when you wake up in the morning and you try to figure, “Am I in the district, or am I in Washington?  Where am I?”  Veterans go through this whole process, of where am I.  I think there is really a gross underestimating about the effect of pulling somebody out of a war zone, flying them back in a couple days, and putting them in with their family immediately.  And not understanding that until Vietnam there was always a decompression.  There was always more ability to brief and debrief before you were put out onto the street.  And I think that as tough as it is for our regular forces our Reservists are hit the hardest.  I do not know where we find the system, and I think maybe working with our veterans organizations that actually being these agents, I think that we probably ought to do more at literally contracting to our veterans organizations, as contractors of the United States Government, just as we do with certain nonprofits for other targeted populations and do as much for our veterans that we’re willing to do for a hell of a lot of other people running around this country who did not earn that.  Any comments about that, Mr. Sharpe?

Mr. SHARPE.  I agree with you.  I’m still in Reserves.  We’re currently training individuals to go all over the world.  I was involved in a training exercise a few months ago where we trained about 75 individuals, Army Reservists and Navy.  At the end of the four weeks, we sent them to six different countries.  And during that time, you know, we’re trying to prepare them not only to go into theater but what it’s going to be like for them once they return.  And so of course we try and give them a briefing of the benefits that they may not be aware of. 

A lot of them do come back within a few days.  They’re back home with their families.  And because of that there are a lot of adjustment problems.  As I mentioned earlier, many of them are having problems with employment and employers.  We know that a lot of employers now are reluctant to hire Reservists because they know they’re going to be deployed more than once.  We have employers that are afraid of PTSD.  They’re not really sure what that is.